Budapest, November 2011
LEONARDO MEETING 4
BUDAPEST, 25 – 27 NOVEMBER 2011
Friday, 25 November 2011
14.30 Opening – Dr Franz Schaffhauser Rector Pető Institute
14.40 Introduction (group has enlarged) – Name and partner’s represented
14.45 Introduction of the lecture on quality assurance – Mrs Miklós Csomor (Vera) – Quality Line Kft (HU)
Language of the lecturer is Hungarian. Translation by Gábor Borics and Eszter Tóthné Horváth
(represent M&W SE)
14.50 Lecture on Quality assurrance (see green folder – English translation of the slides)
16.30 Questions and answers
17.00 Closing the day
Questions asked by the members of the LdV project.
Saturday, 26 November 2011
Comment on the previous day:
Eszter TH (SE – pr. coordinator) – Explained that the lecture on the previous day was not she
asked for. She meant to have lecture of the application of the QS-s
Helga KB (AT) – The PPs material in Hungarian was confusing as it was not possible to
follow the previous English presented version (the lecturer used different pps than was
translated into English)
Subject of the day:
Quality system for Conductive Education (CE)
Eszter TH (SE) suggested that we should start to work together on the daily subject and then
in workshops
PTI (HU): work in a whole group form
MSO (D – PhP): Not the quality system is important but the one we want to assess.
Every QM has its own roles, we have to adapt so we can measure
Common opinion we have to create a process chart as we consider ourselves as one
organisation
Recommendation of QL company is introduced (see attachment)
4 level:
1: Recognise conductor profession (accreditation)
Registration in EU (EOQ)
2: Accreditation of the activities
3: Specific quality development
4: Total Quality Management System
LM: not all can be completed in this project. We have to decide what 4 steps we complete.
E.g: Profession registration in EU – will benefit not only the profession, but the training of the
profession as well.
Discussion:
Discussion on the conductor profile
HKB: suggested to follow the EOQ for the Conductor profession to be recognised, we can not
put the government departments together as complex as the conductor profession, therefore
EOQ recognition is a good step forward.
Quality system of the partner Institutions
Germany: Phoenix:
EFQM – it seemed better but now after 5 years they think that ISO or EFQM equally OK does
not mutter which one. Each 2 years outer control GQA is the owner of the system.
Question of ownership, professional association: within OT-s they have choosen ISO
Keil Institute (AT):
ISO – 6-7 years not certified, but each year self control
Pető Institute (HU):
College: according to the public higher education system (TQM and EFQM)
- Practice Institue – Comenius – based on TQM
German Conductors’ Association:
No QM system, though quality system is an issue they work on it – to express conductive
qualities. Courses for further training as an advisor are offered. Without professional
representation in trust it difficult to achieve something. One of the conductor works for a
small organisation where the quality was provided by the diploma of the conductor. It was
OK for a long period of time but now a quality process needed to compare each organisations
for
Next: Back to the recommendation of the QL kft:
Framework suggested by the 4 steps recommended by QL Kft
ETH – those 4 steps are accepted as a part of our work and we can explain all our works in the
meetings to fit them in those 4 steps.
Comments: (MW, KD): Frame is needed but we can not make a decision about it. We all need
more information on this.
We understand it as a homework It is a shame that we are so many here and do not have the
opportunity to discuss the content of CE.
The protocol of Vienna was seen again. Discussing the work in Vienna to make decision:
The day was closed at this point
Sunday, 27 11 2011
I: 10.00 – 11.30 Discussion on Condoctor as a profession
11.30 – 11.45 Break
II: 11.45. – 13.00 Discussion the outcome of the training of the PI
13.00 – 14.00 Lunch
14.00 – 15.00 Discussion how to go on and what is the „homework”
I. The first discussion was about what documents we have already
ECA document:
Pető Institute document – Training and output requirement
ECA doc – Professional profile of the conductor in Europe – We started to get through
the doc and started to give recommendations for the different part. – we agreed that we all
have to wait until the English version will be ready – so each partner will give
recommendation how to group and categorises the recommendation for CE patients (those
who might be benefited by the method.
Group I for CE
Group 2 for CE
See chart for copy
ETH – recommended the cathergories for the profile of the conductor
three will be covered by Grundtvig project.
II. part A:
Introduction the Training and out put requirement of the Pető Institute as a College – Dezsőné
Horváth (DH) – Pető Institute
Discussion: it was useful; HKB explained the difficulties in Austria that this profession is not
accepted as a pedagogic professional. We have to focus on the BA diploma level
DH the Peto Institute is working on ideas which would help
IPT – professional methodological training enables the conductors to work with all age and
that makes the profession stronger
II. Part B:
Information for Employer’s support What would be the best support for employers?
Discussion of who is the conductor: training for 8 semesters; how many semesters; difficulties
in Germany.
BHZ – introduced the difference of the German system – she got new professions by further
trainings
MSO: disappointed as she expected this project to work for the quality for CE and we accept
each other for the same aim. But now sees that we do not trust each others’ training and we do
not accept each others diploma. Why sitting here then? The different possibilities in further
education need different solution in training of the conductors.
PTI – efforts are great what has been done for the quality for Conductive Education
Preparation of homework:
Contents of the Manual:
1. What is conductive education
2. History of CE at each country
3. Glossary
4. Summary: ( – Quality; - Project work)
Format:
Times new roman
Size:12
Simple distance between the rows
2 – 3000 characters per page
History: 1 or 2 pages
BUDAPEST, 25 – 27 NOVEMBER 2011
Friday, 25 November 2011
14.30 Opening – Dr Franz Schaffhauser Rector Pető Institute
14.40 Introduction (group has enlarged) – Name and partner’s represented
14.45 Introduction of the lecture on quality assurance – Mrs Miklós Csomor (Vera) – Quality Line Kft (HU)
Language of the lecturer is Hungarian. Translation by Gábor Borics and Eszter Tóthné Horváth
(represent M&W SE)
14.50 Lecture on Quality assurrance (see green folder – English translation of the slides)
16.30 Questions and answers
17.00 Closing the day
Questions asked by the members of the LdV project.
Saturday, 26 November 2011
Comment on the previous day:
Eszter TH (SE – pr. coordinator) – Explained that the lecture on the previous day was not she
asked for. She meant to have lecture of the application of the QS-s
Helga KB (AT) – The PPs material in Hungarian was confusing as it was not possible to
follow the previous English presented version (the lecturer used different pps than was
translated into English)
Subject of the day:
Quality system for Conductive Education (CE)
Eszter TH (SE) suggested that we should start to work together on the daily subject and then
in workshops
PTI (HU): work in a whole group form
MSO (D – PhP): Not the quality system is important but the one we want to assess.
Every QM has its own roles, we have to adapt so we can measure
Common opinion we have to create a process chart as we consider ourselves as one
organisation
- We agreed that later on we will assess the 4 point of the QL Kft suggestion might beused as a base.
Recommendation of QL company is introduced (see attachment)
4 level:
1: Recognise conductor profession (accreditation)
Registration in EU (EOQ)
2: Accreditation of the activities
3: Specific quality development
4: Total Quality Management System
LM: not all can be completed in this project. We have to decide what 4 steps we complete.
E.g: Profession registration in EU – will benefit not only the profession, but the training of the
profession as well.
Discussion:
- Name of the method is Conductive Education, Peto is a physician but the Conductor is not a medical profession. Accrediting in the profession is important but how?... CE isnot only a pedagogic approach we should consider the therapeutic approach as well.
- There are diff profession in Europe, e.g.: doctor, even in EU is a registered professionbut there are diff universities in each country with medicine training for doctors
- Registration of the conductor as a profession is important, non of the countries will beable to register but together we can.
- BHZ (D PhP) talked about the profile of the conductor
- JH (H) the regulations for BA training is given by the low in Hungary, recognition is along process in each country
Discussion on the conductor profile
HKB: suggested to follow the EOQ for the Conductor profession to be recognised, we can not
put the government departments together as complex as the conductor profession, therefore
EOQ recognition is a good step forward.
- Agreed: We continue the conductive quality work introduction to complete the project work.
- Ownership of the result on quality system must be discussed later
- MSO: Manual must be written according to the standard. So we can choose the QS we follow. Fort he EOQ is a very good base as an umbrella and each institution ororganisation will work on the Q.Dev, so there not ECA or LdV will be registered butthe organisations we have to decide to register or not.
- LdV could be a suggestion so each can decide on registration
- Agreed: There shall be a controlling consortium, but it is not to be solved now. It isconsidered and we are going to work on that as well after the work of this project
Quality system of the partner Institutions
Germany: Phoenix:
EFQM – it seemed better but now after 5 years they think that ISO or EFQM equally OK does
not mutter which one. Each 2 years outer control GQA is the owner of the system.
Question of ownership, professional association: within OT-s they have choosen ISO
Keil Institute (AT):
ISO – 6-7 years not certified, but each year self control
Pető Institute (HU):
College: according to the public higher education system (TQM and EFQM)
- Practice Institue – Comenius – based on TQM
German Conductors’ Association:
No QM system, though quality system is an issue they work on it – to express conductive
qualities. Courses for further training as an advisor are offered. Without professional
representation in trust it difficult to achieve something. One of the conductor works for a
small organisation where the quality was provided by the diploma of the conductor. It was
OK for a long period of time but now a quality process needed to compare each organisations
for
Next: Back to the recommendation of the QL kft:
Framework suggested by the 4 steps recommended by QL Kft
ETH – those 4 steps are accepted as a part of our work and we can explain all our works in the
meetings to fit them in those 4 steps.
Comments: (MW, KD): Frame is needed but we can not make a decision about it. We all need
more information on this.
We understand it as a homework It is a shame that we are so many here and do not have the
opportunity to discuss the content of CE.
The protocol of Vienna was seen again. Discussing the work in Vienna to make decision:
- Base of decision making each partner has one wote, and 5 wote fully agreed, decided; 3 is the majority and decided as well against the minority.
- HKB – decesion making is based on the work of the national team
The day was closed at this point
Sunday, 27 11 2011
I: 10.00 – 11.30 Discussion on Condoctor as a profession
11.30 – 11.45 Break
II: 11.45. – 13.00 Discussion the outcome of the training of the PI
13.00 – 14.00 Lunch
14.00 – 15.00 Discussion how to go on and what is the „homework”
I. The first discussion was about what documents we have already
ECA document:
Pető Institute document – Training and output requirement
ECA doc – Professional profile of the conductor in Europe – We started to get through
the doc and started to give recommendations for the different part. – we agreed that we all
have to wait until the English version will be ready – so each partner will give
recommendation how to group and categorises the recommendation for CE patients (those
who might be benefited by the method.
Group I for CE
Group 2 for CE
See chart for copy
ETH – recommended the cathergories for the profile of the conductor
- Professional profile
- Training and output requirements
- Ethics
- Personal development profile
- Demand base for employers
three will be covered by Grundtvig project.
II. part A:
Introduction the Training and out put requirement of the Pető Institute as a College – Dezsőné
Horváth (DH) – Pető Institute
Discussion: it was useful; HKB explained the difficulties in Austria that this profession is not
accepted as a pedagogic professional. We have to focus on the BA diploma level
DH the Peto Institute is working on ideas which would help
IPT – professional methodological training enables the conductors to work with all age and
that makes the profession stronger
II. Part B:
Information for Employer’s support What would be the best support for employers?
- the company supports the employers/impolees, to give a work description
- conductor profession is named by the Vienna authority. For Viennese special institution’s profession and give the allowance for employing conductors. In the KI there is an official school – there is a regulation that conductors can work in the school as the other specialist for autism or other disorders.
- how long is a conductor training is very much depends on the country and the regulation and the type of the training . eg: the difference in the trainings in Budapest or in Munich
- the training very much practice orientated and it does mutter how big is the practical area what practice can be provided for the student theory is the better solved possibility.
- Again, “closing the circle” as we get back to the issue of the practice the quality and the minimum standards.
- practical area for the practice of the training is the most important there for Viennese training as it could provide good practice. It was more difficult in Munich as there was no interest in C training therefore it became as a further training for people with a profession.
Discussion of who is the conductor: training for 8 semesters; how many semesters; difficulties
in Germany.
- Ped-trapeutische conductor is registered in Germany there is a great achievements and it is the same in Austria – academic multy therapeutic conductor – registered this way.
- See the drawings – picture
- All the trainings are opening to further trainings; and by that new diploma can be achieved; and it does not take long time, Possible threat: conductor profession will not exist due to loosing the specialty by reducing the length of the time of the training and the practice within, or by renaming the profession according to the local possibilities.
- Conductor is who competed 8 semester with the practice – is the conductor. No physio or other profession would provide a diploma for other professionals after a few semester training.
BHZ – introduced the difference of the German system – she got new professions by further
trainings
MSO: disappointed as she expected this project to work for the quality for CE and we accept
each other for the same aim. But now sees that we do not trust each others’ training and we do
not accept each others diploma. Why sitting here then? The different possibilities in further
education need different solution in training of the conductors.
PTI – efforts are great what has been done for the quality for Conductive Education
Preparation of homework:
- Glossary will be prepared by the Pető Institute (HU)
- Glossary will be sent to the partners by e-mail before the Nürnberg meeting for common discussion and continuation
- Each partner will work on the history of conductive education of their own country
Contents of the Manual:
1. What is conductive education
2. History of CE at each country
3. Glossary
4. Summary: ( – Quality; - Project work)
Format:
Times new roman
Size:12
Simple distance between the rows
2 – 3000 characters per page
History: 1 or 2 pages
